seth! seth: I need some advise! hi jdahlin! What's up? * jdahlin is hacking on a menueditor cool :) seth: do you have any ui suggestions for it eg, adding, removing and rearranging menus and menuitems Yup :) Just provide the ability to turn items on/off And then allow adding new menu items currently I'm playing with a context menu, for adding and removing on and off? Visible vs. Not I think re-arranging menus, etc is pretty silly fairly obscure behavior Mostly the value is to sysadmins oh, this is for a gui designer oh, heh not for the panel :) No wonder that was confusing *grin* slightly different use case :-) You must have been wondering what I was smoking yeah * jdahlin does not care too much about a menu editor for the panel seth: so, back to the subject yup do you think a popup menu is worth it? I don't have a prepared response for what you're doing, so lemme think a second A popup menu? eg, right clicking on an entry where you can remove an entry or add a new one perhaps some other things too I fear dnd. You are currently using a tree view? yeah but I'd prefer having a WYSIWYG style editor of course, if you have a better idea.. I'm not sure a WYSIWYG editor would really be much better Tree view is probably pretty ok aka glade-2? that's a horribly difficult interface to learn and use Yeah, I agere But the devil is in the details how is interface builder doing menus? hm, I don't know actually I can check it out for you on monday maybe Assuming dfong is at work I would suggest doing something semi-schematic that'd be great So represent items sort of visually e.g. don't show U_nderline Crap remember that actions needs to be represented too And show separators as separators Actions? yeah As in GTK ui manager stuff? right eg, shared between toolbars and menubars actually, gazpacho does not support normal menubars and toolbars, only ones created by uimanager OK, so one thing you can do that'd be nice is to make stock items have stock actions So you don't have to worry about actions and connecting them with toolbar items when you use a stock item nod. I think actions should be transparent so when you add something to a toolbar or menubar, an action is created You could consider just having the menubar be defined and later you can connect different buttons and entries to the same action And then letting people select menu items to also add to the toolbar It requires that toolbar be a subset of menus, but that is good UI practice anyway what about ordering in the toolbar? multiple toolbars, separators? Do it epiphany style Just let people drag them around Actually It'd be *really* cool if gazpacho could somehow let people create apps with a built-in toolbar editor Like epiphanies not sure about that a user interface is a lot more complex than the subset the epiphany toolbar supports In what sense? sorry, wasn't clear boxes, and layout in general yeah, no no I was talking about something different :) ah It'd be cool if GTK+ apps had a stock "toolbar editor" built in to them now I got you Such as epiphany's :-) yeah, it needs to go into gtk+ at some point its actually really polished Its a liiiitle unclear how to remove toolbars But otherwise, yes * seth helped marco with it So what if the menu editor and the toolbar editor are combined And you basically have this tree view And you can drag items out if it into the toolbar And re-arrange them and stuff And drag in separators If I had a scanner I could do a sketch for you really quick But none at home camera? :) nope * seth will try to draw something in gimp thanks * jdahlin needs to catch some Zzz give me a sec? sure jdahlin: http://campd.isfuckingmetal.com/quicky.png jdahlin: Most menu items in most menus are stock jdahlin: So we try to make that easiest jdahlin: And basically have a pallette of stock items on the right jdahlin: Categorized based on the toplevel menu they usually go in (in this case "File") with a pulldown seth: right, and eventually support creating of stock icons creation jdahlin: Yeah, and then there'll be an area (not shown) for creating your own pallette of items Then you can drag things into the menu tree there And arrange/indent them etc And/or drag them into the toolbar there'll also be a "separator" item always visible below the stock pallette THat you can drag in at any point but don't you think its confusing to have a separate interface for designing? Very rough no instead of having a canvas, which looks like the real widgets Its more confusing figuring out how to overload the menus themselves overload? I think the impact on programmers is marginal People have ideas how menus should behave Changing the semantics of that so it *looks* like a menu but is editable is probably more confusing Anyway, you can make this a lot like menus This is a tool for programmers I think we can make it very easy to use But a little abstractions isn't bad indeed Anyway, more later tna ,s * seth has to bathroom, jdahlin has to bed :) thanks sure thing my pleasure